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Tilting at windmills
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- Written by: Rod Boyle
- Category: Ideas & Questions
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This is, of course, Don Quixote imagining the windmills to be giants that must be defeated.
Then there was the other "Don" south of the border arguing that Windmills and Turbines should be abolished in favour of coal and gas.
I'd long suspected that Windmills were a scam on the order of "Plastic Bags" or "Paper Cups" - bad for the environment, sure, but not nearly as bad as the paid-for alternatives, I mean - a reusable cloth or plastic bag from Dollarama or WalMart needs to be used hundreds if not thousands of times to justify it's existence relative to a plastic bag - yet few of them reach even a fraction of that. The same with travel mugs vs paper cups. It was - in the end - all a scam to encourage consumers to spend more and feel good about themselves and the environment.
So I asked the ChatGPT:
This is regarding windmills. While loudly touted as a "Green" alternative to oil, how many kilowatt hours are required to make one (Mine or recycle/refine the steel, copper, other elements used in their manufacture, transport, set up, etc) vs the expected output of said windmill over it's lifetime?
"The question you're asking is an important one, and it's worth separating the engineering reality from the marketing.
A wind turbine is not energy-free simply because it generates electricity without burning fuel. Its true energy cost includes the extraction and processing of raw materials, manufacture of components, transportation, construction, maintenance, replacement parts, and eventual dismantling or recycling.
The relevant calculation is called Energy Return on Energy Invested (EROEI), or sometimes Energy Payback Time.
There are two questions worth answering:
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How much energy does it take to produce, install, maintain and eventually dispose of a wind turbine?
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How much usable electricity does it generate over its actual working lifetime?
The ratio between those figures tells us how much net energy society actually receives.
1. What does it take to manufacture one?
Let's use a modern, utility-scale, land-based 2 MW wind turbine as our reference. This is a useful comparison because several published lifecycle studies examine turbines of this size.
A turbine isn't just a steel tower and three blades. Its material inventory includes:
|
Component |
Principal materials |
|---|---|
|
Tower |
Steel |
|
Foundation |
Concrete and reinforcing steel |
|
Blades |
Fibreglass, carbon fibre, epoxy resins |
|
Generator |
Copper, steel, sometimes rare-earth magnets |
|
Gearbox |
Steel and iron |
|
Electrical systems |
Copper, aluminium, electronics |
|
Nacelle |
Steel, cast iron, aluminium |
An interesting point: in a Vestas lifecycle assessment of its 3.3 MW turbine, steel and iron account for approximately 82% of turbine mass. When the foundations are included, concrete accounts for approximately 66% of the entire installation's mass.
The mining and processing of these materials are not trivial. Iron ore must be mined, concentrated and smelted; copper ore must be mined, crushed, concentrated and refined; and the production of aluminium and composite materials is energy intensive.
One important qualification: lifecycle assessments generally account for the energy used in producing these materials, rather than simply adding up the electricity consumed at the turbine factory. Some of that energy comes from coal, natural gas and other fuels.
2. How much energy does it take?
There are several published lifecycle assessments worth examining.
|
Study |
Turbine |
Energy payback |
|---|---|---|
|
Renewable Energy, 2012 |
1.8–2 MW |
7 months |
|
Oregon State University, 2014 |
2 MW |
5.2–6.4 months |
|
New Zealand lifecycle study, 2024 |
4.3 MW |
4.8–6 months |
|
Empirical lifecycle study, 2025 |
Wind farm turbines |
6.1 months |
These studies include varying combinations of manufacturing, transportation, installation, maintenance and end-of-life treatment.
The consistent finding is that manufacturing accounts for the largest share of the energy investment. One 2 MW study attributed 84.4% of lifecycle energy requirements to manufacturing, with tower construction particularly significant.
3. Now let's calculate the actual lifetime return
Consider a 2 MW turbine operating at a 35% average capacity factor.
That means it produces, on average, 35% of its theoretical maximum output.
6,132,000 kWh
Annual electricity production
Assuming a 20-year working life:
122,640,000 kWh
Total lifetime electricity production
Now let's apply the published energy payback figures.
A seven-month payback at this production rate represents approximately:
So, as an illustrative electricity-equivalent calculation:
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Energy invested: approximately 3.58 million kWh.
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Lifetime generation: approximately 122.64 million kWh.
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Energy returned: approximately 34 times the initial investment.
20-year lifetime at 35% capacity factor; 7-month energy payback assumption.
4. What does this mean over its lifetime?
The illustrative 20-year balance
Energy invested
3.58 million
kWh equivalentEnergy generated
122.64 million
kWhNet energy surplus
119.06 million
kWhEnergy return ratio
34:1
ApproximateImportant technical qualification: The calculation above translates the seven-month payback assumption into an electricity-equivalent figure. Published lifecycle studies don't all use identical energy accounting conventions. Some count primary energy consumed in producing fuels and electricity, while the output is measured as electricity. Therefore, 3.58 million kWh should be treated as an illustrative estimate, not a measured manufacturing electricity bill.
Also, this is a turbine-level calculation. It does not necessarily include the full cost of grid expansion, transmission, backup generation, or additional storage needed to accommodate variable generation.
5. What about recycling?
This is where things get interesting.
Steel, copper and aluminium are recyclable, and recycling can substantially reduce the energy required for future manufacturing.
However, there are complications:
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Steel and copper can be recovered and reused relatively effectively.
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Rare-earth magnets can be recycled, but recovery is more complicated.
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Fibreglass and carbon-fibre blades are considerably more problematic.
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Concrete foundations are generally demolished, with material often downcycled rather than returned to equivalent-quality concrete production.
A 2012 lifecycle study examined recycling scenarios and found that recycling improved the energy balance.
In other words, a turbine doesn't simply disappear when its useful life ends. There is an additional industrial process involved in dealing with it.
6. Where I think the real questions lie
I wouldn't conclude from these figures that wind power is an energy scam. The available lifecycle research suggests that properly sited, utility-scale wind turbines produce considerably more energy than is invested in them.
But I would raise four important questions that often get lost in the public discussion:
1. Location matters enormously.
A turbine in a consistently windy location can repay its energy investment relatively quickly. Put the same turbine somewhere with mediocre wind resources and its economics and energy return deteriorate.
2. What happens after 20–25 years?
The foundation and tower may remain serviceable, but blades, generators, gearboxes and other components may need replacement. Repowering is not free.
3. What is the cost of intermittency?
A turbine produces electricity when the wind blows, not necessarily when electricity is needed. Storage, transmission and balancing systems have their own material and energy costs. These are not always fully allocated to individual turbine lifecycle assessments.
4. What is the actual environmental cost of mining?
The extraction of copper, iron, aluminium, rare earths and other minerals has environmental consequences beyond energy consumption: tailings, water use, habitat disturbance, chemical processing and waste.
These deserve scrutiny even if the energy balance is positive.
My conclusion
The best available lifecycle studies suggest that a modern, well-sited, large wind turbine typically repays its embodied energy in roughly 5–12 months, and then generates net energy for the remainder of its working life.
That is a reasonably impressive energy return.
But I would be cautious about accepting a turbine's published energy-payback figure as the complete environmental balance of a wind farm or an electricity system.
There is a substantial difference between:
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A turbine being energy-positive.
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A wind farm being environmentally sustainable.
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A national electricity grid being economically and technically sustainable with a high proportion of wind power.
Those are three different propositions.
One further investigation I think would be particularly worthwhile: comparing the full cradle-to-grave energy and material costs of wind, solar, hydroelectric, nuclear, natural gas and coal, using the same accounting boundaries and equivalent electricity output.
That would give us a much more meaningful comparison than simply labelling one technology green and another dirty."
***
So I was wrong. I'm actually glad.
The Light (At the end of the Tunnel)
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- Written by: Rod Boyle
- Category: Blog
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Work, the past few days, long days, and they scheduled me Saturday despite my having other plans. Work should not interfere with them but - well, I'd rather work wasn't on the table.
Talking with the owner, he's got a plan. A light at the end of the tunnel for me that might see me off and about the mountains this summer. Something to look forward to - I have nothing to complain about, only that this has become untenable and I need change.
Then there's the curiosity over the next few days - the US midterms - voting "as usual" except I'm certain (as are a number of better informed countries and individuals than myself) that something's up. There's no way he's relinquishing power without a fight - too much at stake for both him and the rest of the .01%. So - expect something - whether it be an "AI Escaped the box and tampered with the elections" or a full on attack on Iran and the imposition of martial law. The air-defence missile batteries installed outside Mar-A-Lago - unprecedented - are a fair warning, as are the instructions now being provided troops on how to dig mass graves. Really. Look it up.
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Workmen in to clean my filters on Tuesday, meaning today I was up, light clean in the bathroom, kitchen, the island, sweep, laundry, more to do when I get home ... I need it to be rudimentarily tidy when the workmen arrive.
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The neighbour invites me over for some Chicken soup. It's about time, really, it's good and saves me cooking for which I'm grateful - my own food can grow a bit boring. After that I go to take out my garbage when I run into the neighbour downstairs who - get ready - invites me over for some Chicken soup.
The plus side of community housing.
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And "Burger Month" has arrived. Work will pick up, scrolling FaceBook and all the offerings - some look amazing. A shame I don't love burgers so much that I can try them all - typically I eat a burger - max 2 - per month. And so I have to choose carefully, but some of the cafe's are going all out. This is no-doubt a result of the CBC documentary on Burger Month that's airing - I met one of the producers - he came in to the restaurant to complain that our kitchen was making too much noise, that his production had paid $1000 to use the space downstairs and we were ruining it for him...
He was one of those pretentious artist types. I mean - we're a business, we also pay to be there, and - while we will do our best, come-on and respect that we've all got jobs to do and his should have been to figure out that he's filming beneath/beside a busy restaurant. And why he's paying $1000 for an otherwise empty place to film for an hour? Well, his problem...
***
We close early on Halloween - we were dead, no point. And from work I headed off to a showing of "Rocky Horror Picture Show" at the Capitol Theatre - complete with a shadow cast of 22 people. The theatre is packed. It was interesting - well done, after it's fashion, certainly a lot of work - and - sublime as only the Kootenays can be - but - give me the film or give me the play, but this shadow-casting - it does nothing for me. Although I was greatly impressed by the introduction of "Dolly" - the Angel of Dolly Parton - who appears to remove Brad/Janet/etc to heaven at the end. Completely absurd and irrelevant. Which was the point, probably, I'm hoping...
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Coming back from the show - 12:30 AM, and the neighbour 3 doors down is being yelled at by a Police officer. He had a crisis, called the police - for what? The cop is asking, getting increasingly annoyed, and he has no ready explanation. He's been to rehab twice the past 6 months, once for a full 6 weeks, and every time he gets back he cuts his hair (it was a shoulder length mess before) and immediately begins hanging out in front of the Hume and with the midnight-on-Baker crowd. Not a recipe for sobriety I gotta say.
***
And this catches me up to the present. More to be done at the library, then back to cleaning the flat and with luck maybe a bit of painting when I get home.
Doubles, Autumn, Rain
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- Written by: Rod Boyle
- Category: Blog
- Hits: 76
The next few days doubles, the weather, cool, rainy, the patios rolled up on Baker last week all of a sudden - 1 day they're there, the next day they've all vanished.
It's perfect weather for my melancholy disposition, and there's been enough rain that I have to take a day and find my way to Balfour - there will be some arrowheads exposed, I can feel it, and if not soon the ground will freeze and the snow will fall...
Work, well, it adds up. As do the bills. I'm still swimming in debt, the irregular payments from work are taking their toll - late fees and charges just pile up and build a mountain of debt where there should be - well, nothing, really.
So the days, grey, rainy, or if sunny then still cloudy and cool, snow's on the mountain, work goes.
All the news sites I routinely visit have taken to demanding I subscribe. I'm a little too much panicked about the current events, and all the countries warning of dire things coming November 2nd - Russia, Finland, UK, others, all advising their citizens to stock up on food, fresh water, probably it's nothing but I can't help but think this is a warning about the American Midterms.
That might well be a shitshow.
Other than that, nada. My social feed (doomscroll the evenings away) - has filled up with Gordon Ramsay videos, and having watched them all I'm now getting Marco Pierre White. Marco is definitely the more charming of them and he gets the job done with a much better temper.
What amazes me is how the shows glamourize the Chef's - and how much competitions there is for a thankless, high-stress job that - for most of them - will never pay them well, and those that get to "The Top" would have been better off going to get a degree or keep a peaceful job in retail. But - the world needs chefs, and doesn't care to pay them, so making all these competitive cooking shows, well, it's keeping people in the culinary arts.
But I've been inspired to get back to a poem I started a while back, and Gordon Ramsay's endless inspiration for that.
Now, at the library, time to download a few hundred pictures from Google Photos - my account - "Filled Up", but it's not, not by a long shot, but better to be safe than sorry. Then home to make what will be a delicious Spaghetti Carbonara, not A-La-Ramsay, but to my taste for sure.
I Want Your Sex - 2026
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- Written by: Rod Boyle
- Category: Film
- Hits: 73
An older female artist (Olivia Wilde) take a younger, inexperienced paid staff member as her lover. Only her tastes are rather...
Well, you can watch the trailer. Exploring themes of Dominance/Submission, Obsession, Disconnect, largely a comedy (although not entirely) - It was O.K. but - for a better exploration of the themes, with an older man who should long since have learned better see "Venus in Fur" by Roman Polanski...the former, it just seems to be a warning to "Don't stick your dick in Crazy" - which I'm fully in agreement with, but it's easier said than done, especially when the "Crazy" comes in the shape of Olivia Wilde.
Link: I Want Your Sex Trailer
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